[Music] So People welcome everybody to uh florence On friday Um it’s like going to florence on a Ticket that looks a bit like an easyjet One I think not just ever so slightly I’m going to welcome our two really The talent of this i merely ask the Questions And keaton crow i’m going to go to you First keaton crow From igrappi with that is the the Florentine skyline behind you isn’t it Where are you So we’re at the uh iqadefi apartment in Florence we Are overlooking the uh the ponte or the River arnold and the ponte vecchio right Now So it’s quite nice how often do you get To spend Time in the egreci apartment in florence I try uh every weekend Whether or not that’s successful That is like another perk of the job Isn’t he yeah Yeah no it’s it’s really been a Lifestyle change for Uh for yeah everything here living in Italy Was bulgari’s quite uh quaint there’s Only about
2 000 people i think in the population Of bulgari So changes quite significantly going From bulgari to chechnya Or glory to florence very much so and Talking of lifestyle changes And and living the lifestyle emily O’hare um You have experienced that lifestyle Change having gone From 50 well river cafe the hustle and Bustle of london life And you now exude calm and wine Education Is that good is that how we do my Background Is probably evident that there’s Definitely no calm in this House but um i’m really happy to be in In tuscany in italy i’m in siena um Although that’s Obviously not very evident from my Screen Um but uh yeah i’ve i’ve been here since 2014. so i left the caf in In august of 2014 Pretty much like doing doing everything I could to stay like i was really Keen to like try and stay and make a Life for myself in italy so i did the Harvest in the south and the centre in The north And then i came back to florence where i Had a really amazing time and
Um yeah based myself in in florence even Though i did love the south i really Loved Uh napoli and and um and the wines of The south too i mean the wines all over Wonderful but For work it made sense to be in central Italy and um i hadn’t ever been to Florence so i thought maybe try florence And I’m in siena after a bit of a detour to Montana but um Quite happily uh based in siena now Brilliant Now we’re going to get stuck into some Wine you went To igrepee a day or so ago is that right Yesterday yeah i have to say i went Quite reluctantly I it’s so stupid because i’m so snobby About Bulgari for some reason though for some Or like international varieties here i Feel really Um faithful to you know quite sadistic Sanjaresi i i really Um i’m in love with italian varieties Um the native grapes and so a bit kind Of snobby about um Bulgari because they use international Varieties but then if you if you had Asked me like my favorite possibly one Of my favorite wines in the world in Italy would be sassakaya which is
Probably a bit of a cliche but And of course it’s made with International varieties but still i had This bit of a kind of hangover about Bulgari they’re using international Varieties how interested i really Am and yesterday i had such fun Visiting igrepee and and looking And tasting and seeing how the grapes How they like how italy speaks Above the grapes how this um they have The the country that the terroir seems To speak louder than the varieties but Actually the varieties themselves Have something unique to say here too And it was really Really fascinating yeah it was really it Was quite surreal I wasn’t expecting it to be surreal are You are you delighted Keaton do you feel you’ve passed the Tests now that emily has come I i certainly didn’t know what to expect But it was we had we had a whole lot of Fun Uh going to the cellar and and yeah Talking about all the work that we’re Doing Um here at grappy working with of course Uh the three main uh bordeaux varietals Merlot cavifrank cabernet sauvignon Um you know we have conversations Internally all the time and we can taste It when we taste the wines
Um influences from other regions france Napa valley Other new world areas where you know I think i think and we put it well when She said that uh bulgari Speaks for itself regardless of the Varietal so Well it’s six o’clock just gone european Time it’s five o’clock Uh british summer time i mean we ought To be trying some of these wines up Shouldn’t we Should we because everybody’s got greppy Canty and grappy kyle is that right 2018 um and then 2017 Uh I’m presuming grumpy count graphicante Is that right yeah we can go ahead and Start with grappy kante and i’ve got Mine Here and just whilst everybody’s getting Out talk us through this Label a little bit keaton yeah on the Label you see the two What’s red and um the red blobs right Here these are actually our two lakes That we have on the property and this is Um very distinct to our site and The the gruppy estate um which we have These two bodies of water That uh act as a kind of Uh it creates own microclimate really In in our local area so as we’re tasting This wine 2018 was a very
Um much more mild and even ripening Vintage When we go to the 2017 uh uh graphically You can see a little bit more of that Moderating influence how the Uh the lakes moderate the extremes of The Season the harvest season so yeah so and The label you can see the map in the Background We can see you so you sit between is it Um well there’s Bulgari in the top right hand side and Then uh Sort of sits down towards the bottom is That right yeah i’m here And then this row of hills here Presumably this is what because i can See i think from my geography there’s a Um sort of lines on it that’s this This sort of idea of the bowl that is That right is that the bowl that Runs around it the bulge of the Amphitheater I’m sure everyone’s got the details but Just tell us a little bit about Um what’s in this what’s in it how is it Made Yes so this is a like i said 20 uh 2018 Wine Um the grepicante uh for This vintage actually changed quite Significantly to a majority merlot wine So this is sixty percent merlot twenty
Percent cavity franking twenty percent Cabernet sauvignon And uh with the merlot you get a lot of Red fruit character a bit of A bit of flint on the nose and um that’s Uh That’s a part of the winemaking process Because we partly partially age in Stainless steel The rest of the rest of the the wine is Aged in Second or third passage barrels for 10 To 12 months depending on the vintage And yeah this is going to be uh this is Only One of two reds that we we produce so we Put A lot of emphasis into quality Throughout the whole entire production But what’s interesting about The grumpy kante is actually that when We we did another tasting recently and It was pointed out The grepicante kind of seems uh to be More typically french In style and and that like i said has a Bit to do with that That flintiness that Kind of um It’s a bit of a this reductive Characteristic that opens up With time and kind of uh gives you Just a lot of diversity in the glass Well let’s turn across to emily you know
Your expertise and You have years of experience dealing With italian wines in general And you’ve enjoyed this sort of down the Scene conversion Yesterday it sounds like to the ones of Bulgari what was your expectation when You first Found when you first came across gravity County Well you know what i tasted um igreppy Uh Back in um it must have been maybe 2013 Um for decanter so i did a blind tasting Of 10 and 11 bulgari And it was it was really it was really Cool i i was i’m sure i know this This um these guys and i look back Through my notes because i keep Well my dad bought every decanter that i Ever appeared in probably about five Copies of everything and so i’ve got a Copies of everything that i ever Appeared in Thanks for my dad and um and i was I remembered a few wineries i mean Sassakaya 10 appeared in that tasting And it was Like exquisite as i expected but the Eleven sasaka wasn’t i didn’t Pick up we all found like the the the Ten but we didn’t pick up the eleven And with what i loved about it was that In i gave exactly the
Same score really quite high score i Think it was around 1775 for both Um not that number’s a very pleasant way To talk about wine but They were really consistent in in two Very different and quite difficult years Um and i don’t know if 10 was that easy Actually in bulgaria and i Really love the consistency in the and The transparency I really hate dense wines i can’t um Because i want to eat with them i love To eat and i get got into wine because i Love to eat and i i don’t like Dense and heavy wines so usually i kind Of steer away from wines that might be Very Full-bodied um hence my love for i guess Sandra vezion abiola Um but these but i remember that he Grabbed me just having a real kind of Fluidity that i really liked and a Kind of an accessibility a refreshment Quality that i I loved and so i was really intrigued to Kind of visit and go back And um yeah and i i’m Again it’s really as i find so often With italian merlot And i talked about this yesterday with Keaton that um they seem to be Have this wonderful acidity which isn’t Something you align with mellow And then and keaton was telling me that
The mellow uh Is it your merlokitan that has like Higher acidity than a napa Cab or something if you analyze it it’s Actually got Quite high levels of planning and Acidity which is more yeah yeah Obviously you know it’s always medium Medium Yeah specifically our soils even are a Bit more acidic on the estate in the Grubby estate So yeah the the merlot Grown on these soils these sandy loam Soils are is definitely a little bit More acidic Keaton you clearly come from the united States and you’ve started making one Recently can we now assume that igraphy Is going to go into this Massive prune skin overweight Huge bomb of sweet fruit or are you Going to keep with having a nice Dose of freshness and a flinty character On the edge of it No i think i think there definitely is So first of all the the massive bomb the Fruit bombs that come from california I i agree that there does some tend to Be some People that producers that overdo it but No that’s not the goal The goal first of all first and foremost Is always to let the site speak for
Itself of course But how do you do that and And so that is where we are revising our Protocols one step at a time Um going from the very basics the ground Up and then working our way down to the Tops where you do more stylistic Decisions Versus um versus you know looking at a Fundamental Part of the winemaking process so uh What we’re really Trying to do is emphasize the Characteristic of the fruit I kind of like how the grepicante 18 is Showing right now i would like to keep That kind of stylistic That stylistic choice for that wine in The future um But for as we as we move towards Our uh producing other wines whether in Pradeza or Even our greppa kaya i think we’re going To be playing a lot more around with Again just trying to show topicity in Sight Trying to show the characteristic of the Fruit from that place and making a lot Of um You know taking a lot of notes from Different regions different Uh places around the world I i could talk a year off about uh How i think that bordeaux style
Winemaking Changes how we perceive their wines Versus napa valley And it goes from their climate of course But it also goes to how they make their Wines In the cellar and i think um part of the Reason why California you said has this this fruit Bomb characteristic Is just because they tended to these Super long ripening periods Which isn’t always possible here because We have the The late that the fall rains it kind of Truncates you Naturally in within the season yeah We we can’t do that super super high Sugar Super long ripening shriveled cab salt That they that the adapter producers Often love to do But they’re not doing that anymore Though keaton are they that’s that was Kind of a 90s thing wasn’t it The long hang time there still is i Think a fair bit of long hang time There’s there’s i i would actually have To talk more to my friends but um About what’s what’s really current and Kavanaugh’s avenue winemaking But i definitely feel there is a kind of Necessity Because with italian law you also
Cannot what’s referred to as water back In the wine making process in italy Whereas in california You can get these really high sugar Levels but if you get Too high then your wine is going to be 17 18 If you let it ferment all the way Through so in california you can add Water In italy it’s not allowed so you’re also Limited legally And from the climate from having a super Super upright wines Can i just say um i’ve been looking at The the the comments that are coming Through and we have this extraordinary Collection of brilliant you know wine Voices from across the united kingdom And other than sophie mclean about 90 of Them are on the quality of the biscuits That came with the wines earlier on Today so um The british wine press living up to its Expectations sophie there says what was The blend again Sorry at 60 merlot And then it’s uh the 220 so it’s 20 Percent cabernet franc and 20 Cabernet sauvignon so it’s easy to Remember and i Saw there was a post the other day it Was a an instagram post Very nice instagram feed thank you very
Much um it was some very amusing posts In there And there was uh dale the uh the Vignette manager Uh sticking his head out of a bit you’re Replanting because you are doing quite a Lot of replanting at the moment What have you discovered about the Terroir as you pulling things out and Putting stuff back in again yeah so um You know i think you look at a specific Site and you always think okay We’re in a we’re in a place that’s our Our gruppy estate Uh vineyard is uh 13 hectares Of planted vines and you think okay it’s Going to be rather homogeneous but it’s It’s just amazing how You get these differences um As you just move you know a couple Hundred meters in the vineyard So we ended up digging 13 soil pits at Uh 2 meters depth And i’m working on taking the The different levels of the soil samples But We’re just learning a lot about as as we Approach the lakes or as we move away From the lakes How we um how how the soil Uh characteristic changes whether it’s Sandy loam We have this kind of interesting caliche Uh
Like kind of like limestone slash clay Mixture It’s um it’s kind of like we’re looking At Of course how we choose the correct root Stock then For for those uh those soils as they Change because it’s not homogeneous It’s it’s quite um it’s quite diverse in A small area So brilliant we’ve got a question from Sophie Not mclean other sophie who says can you Tell us more about Viticulture um i guess both in Bulgaria but then specifically at a Graphic yeah So we are always trying to uh put Quality first And if there’s an extremely difficult Vintage um We we try to manage that with all the Tools that we have At our disposal but last year i think With a relatively Even vintage we had a bit of a heat wave In 2020 But we started introducing a lot of um Biological competition so we used A a specific type of wasp to kill Mealy bugs so we introduced these Insects into the vineyard And and then uh this this actually we Saw a dramatic difference
We i didn’t see a single mealybug then For the rest of harvest Um last year 2020 we actually went and We dropped 50 Of our merlot so that 50 percent of our Merlot production Overall um it was a big decision to make But we saw a dramatic increase in Quality And um and the phenolic ripeness and the Availability of that that fruit Characteristic Um and we Are working towards yes more sustainable Viticulture Uh using uh More cover crops and we to produce Nitrogen in the soil We don’t want to use a lot of fertilizer Or anything Uh yeah is there any specific Uh question about viticulture that is in The chat Feel free to ask yes sophie if you’ve Got a particular bits we’ll go and Uh bigger the density sophie would like To know about The soil density and the divine density I guess Oh the vine density the vine density Yeah of course Um so the vine density is about uh 5 000 Per uh per hectare 5 000 a hectare now there’s a barrel
Question from Katrina is that further up have i missed One of these And that’s it yes question for keaton What kind of barrels do you use And why so we use all french oak Barrels they’re all small french oak Barrels We use a variety of different producers Again experimenting more with the Different producers Now than in previous years it was um We tend to like sega myrtle because they They are very Scientific in their approach and they Produce a very consistent product Year uh year to year um terence Is also a fantastic but more traditional Type of group bridge And and then we’ve been experimenting With Some white barrels from borgonia we’ve Been Experimenting with uh yeah just a Variety of different producers Toast levels um i know i cannot ride a Horse Not yet I’m glad we’re getting the really Important meaty questions here can Keaton ride a horse a song oh it’s a Form of sommelier Um what do you do what should we do with This what do we do with it
Oh okay i mean um i’m just a bit Distracted Quite a horse question actually i You don’t have to do very much with These wines because they they sell Themselves If you’re where i was so obviously the Cafe has only got um italian wines on The list And you’d also you’d often get the Reason i Wanted to work there was because i Wanted people to talk to me because Previously i worked for 15 and um it was an international list And so people always Chose bordeaux or shiraz and Also and so when i went to the river Cafe People didn’t know what to go for they Went for what was familiar There was this one man who came in and And uh was quite I don’t know maybe because i was Definitely younger than i am now Female and he said he didn’t like Anything on the list he just wanted to Drink uh Poiyak he only like poyak and i maybe he Kind of thought i didn’t know What podiak was um or where it is or What grape to use and i said oh well Then Perhaps maybe you’d like bulgari the
Wines from bulgaria They tend to be cabernet driven and um And He was then putty in my hands after that It was one of my favorite experiences Because Yeah he was he was quite hard work and Then he just kind of rolled over and Rubbed his belly for the rest of the Meal it was um Nice so everybody actually i am grateful To bob with a lot of things but Um there tend to be a lot of um not many People even people with You know very stacked sellers know much About italian wines actually this is Quite a nice way in for them bulgari It’s something familiar but it’s Different um so it’s it’s it’s kind of An Easy sell i think it’d be much harder to Sell I don’t know i mean catholic classico is Much More much better known now and things But uh actually bulgari is a really nice Introduction to italy because actually You have you have a kind of something Familiar but different And for this wine yeah It’s super um easy because it has that Like lightness that deafness that i like It doesn’t have a Heavy weight so you could kind of go the
Whole way through the The meal um with it That’s interesting emily we know you Came through 15 and then The river cafe became a great taste of Taste of do counter and so on Keeson you’re a rival explain how you Arrived In because you’re american what on earth Are you doing in florence Yeah so it’s kind of a whirlwind romance Um that happened with me andy greppy I neil our owner actually approached uh My school uc davis As i was graduating and he wanted to Propose A partnership with the university to Start a research project As well as an internship and They they asked for a student to to go For the first time And i thought it was a long shot because I knew that um there was an existing Scholarship With tignanello uh and to noise to Manilow and The professors told me that 50 of the Time the students go because of all the Bureaucracy and The paperwork so it was real big hail Mary Saying okay there’s a new company um Yeah you can you can go to italy i don’t I didn’t speak a a word of uh
Of italian when i when i arrived and Then Uh and it worked out we we managed to Get the paperwork through I i had my passport in hand the day Before with my My visa the day before i left new york And then i arrived in bulgari And um i arrived for the 25th Anniversary dinner i’m not sure if you You saw that on instagram That looks amazing if you check out his Instagram it looks amazing that that Must have been like oh Well welcome to italy the stars are live It was a great Dinner 750 members of the bulgaria wine family It was uh A two i think it was like a kilometer Long table Or half a kilometer long tail it was it Was out along the Cheap breasty avenue it was absolutely Stunning it was my second day in uh In italy so yeah starting off from i Mean And that’s why i’m still here because i I just i fell in love instantly Um as many do with italy but With bulgar in particular i think it’s Just such a unique opportunity to Um to make these international varietals In such a a specific and special place
In italy Um that’s just fantastically Set for yeah for for viticulture and And this this kind of um This this climate this mediterranean Climate mixed with the the salty The sea air and uh you know this Beautiful ripening period it’s just such A fantastic opportunity You’ve set me up for a question here Because because you arrived at this Extraordinary dinner And i’ve got a question from claire and She says i’d love to know about classic Dishes of the region To serve with this wine we’re going to Go and jump on to the next one in a Second Was there anything you remember from That dinner that was a presumably there Were some classic dishes of the region When you arrived at this Extraordinary dinner yeah so i would Have to say That a classic dish has certainly been Uh papadely conchingale Um this is uh you know whenever we go to The The uh the restaurants in bulgari It’s it’s always well known for the Papadopoli conchangale And i think this wine is a you know Medium plus tan and wine You have that uh that nice
Firm structure but it’s not too intense For something that Is uh it complements really well the Pasta and the meat the The sauce it’s uh Now you’re talking about tannins what’s This wine X-ray thing that you do You don’t actually x-ray the wine do you No No we do shine some light through it but It’s not an x-ray Um so yeah this this is a company that Came They started in california in napa Valley But uh the owner is actually from Campania so he has strong italian roots And where emily would work you did a Starjetter didn’t you in companion Yeah it’s all connecting together so These created this thing in the states What does he do So it’s just um it’s a really simple Analysis Um you can take any wine anything At any point in the winemaking process Send a little bit of light through it And then you upload that sample to the Uh to their website And it gives you back all the Information on basically five simple Parameters you have The total color the total anthocyanin
The the free anthocyanin Which is that purple rich color that you Get from young wines The bound anthocyanin which is the more Brick red color You have the tannin and the total Phenolics So these with these five parameters we It’s It’s the single most important analysis For Influencing our stylistic decisions as i Was explaining To emily yesterday so um Yeah this this analysis is uh has kind Of revolutionized how A lot of wine makers in california think About their winemaking process And a lot of that is because previously Um what you had to do was uh wait you Know Near 48 hours for the same analysis And it was incredibly difficult to Repeat the process So actually things would change right Yes so it depends on on if you’re in Fermentation Do you really want to wait 48 hours to Make a decision um because then you You always want to be current so now we Can know what level of tan We have know what color we have in a Matter of uh You know minutes that answers your
Question sophie he was just about to ask How quickly do you get it so what is a Couple of minutes and You get the results back yeah a couple Of minutes Um and yeah like i said it it is a bit Of a black box and how they Um they they calculate the um The levels of tannin and color and all That stuff but We in in california at least they do Offer the wet chemistry To confirm they will do the what Chemistry for you on a wine if you want A second chest That second uh check well Interesting i feel a little bit like Jennifer aniston here because this is The The sort of science bits and so i should Have some sort of like Done for this and considerably better Hair Um what’s the balance between being Scientific And traditional you know the deep smarts Of 8 000 years of wine making history So yeah we were talking about that Yesterday um I i did come straight from university Over to Italy and it’s been a very steep Learning curve and a very exciting one
Um and science informs a lot of the ways That we think about The very fundamentals like i was saying Earlier about the wine making process But that being said of course you need To have the tradition and the experience In it So while i am constantly gaining Constantly learning The experience we also have an outside Consultant to help us With the more stylistic decisions his Name is emiliano falcini he’s uh He’s a very well-known consultant Winemaker in the area And um and so when we when we go through These decisions yes of course We are applying a lot of new techniques We’re applying um A lot of new world and scientific based Approaches to our viticulture Our winemaking but at the end of the day Uh when we make the product We are we have a lot of experience in a Lot of years behind us Collectively you went there yes then you Have this sort of talks Emily you know for people who’ve become Sons And and you know wine writers rarely Come in because they’re really into the Science And i know there are some jeremy good Some sort of people you often come in
For the sort of romantic Side of it how did you feel when you Were talking about You know science and wine x-ray and Yeah initially i i went in And i said oh this is going to be the Least interesting part like it’s just It’s not the most attractive room Caitlyn is it that you’re working on Like he said to me when he first arrived He was working his desk was the The top of the fridge where the freezer Where they’re keeping these samples and And one part looks like it might contain Things out of the matrix like those Heads out of the matrix it was a bit Weird but i was so quickly i was because I I i really like the science of it i i Love The the the winemakers that are doing Everything in in tuition and i feel like Naturally Particularly with the move towards Sustainability which i and i understand He greppy is but We’re all looking for that kind of back To basic style and things but actually It’s not as if from what they’re doing They’re then saying okay and now we’re Going to add some Purple essence and now we’re going to Add some flavoring Nothing is made and it’s not made in the
Chest tube they’re using test tubes to Analyze stuff and i Found it i i i would join him tomorrow To undersee what was going on in that Lab like part of me If i had the opportunity to go back to School to go to wine school now to take Three years off and go to plumpton Or ucd and i i would or that one in Germany Um what’s his name went to shauna can i Have an amazing guy I i would go to study because i feel Like the science actually Like i feel like we it’s like a dark Arts like most of us come from the arts Into wine like Most of my friends i know lots of them On the panel and i’m sorry i can’t see Their faces Um we came from an art background and And literature and all that kind of Stuff and this Seems slightly odd into it but actually Like from what i was learning yesterday Um this the analysis of the the Bound and the free tannins and stuff is Is just so that they know If we pick now this means that in the Long term our wines will retain more Color It’s not like we pick now because we Want to manipulate it It’s just to understand that this is the
Best way to retain color if we pick now And obviously color is important and Things so it’s um It was it was for me i i felt like i was Kind of betraying all my Uh my wine friends by By enjoying this science element and i Thought why would i why would i be Betraying them if i love this science Element because it’s It helps for me like i always struggle With when you do wine tastings and you Have to say medium plastic and minus That and Um i actually would rather just be told That’s got high time like this has got High tannins like If you analyze it it’s got high tannins Because otherwise sugar might mask Something or any I don’t know how how critical we really Can be without the science behind it and I i’d almost rather be told Well they blend together wasn’t it um Virginia woolf loved that word Incarnadine Which is brilliant if you’ve sort of run Out of other words to use to describe Polyphenols and colors Then you come out with incarnation which Nobody else has ever really Got no idea what it is it’s a very very Useful word to go and do particularly in Mw tasting notes
And it’s also the only word i can Remember virginia woolf going and using Particularly I think we should go and try uh some Graphic kaya now We’ve been sort of lingering and i Suspect a few people well i’ve eaten all The biscuits and they’ve had their Peccary I can see you’ve all been wolfing those Down so This comes in this fella here uh Beautiful bottle I’ve already owned it and bloody hell It’s fantastic Alicia i’m delighted that i was Thank you very much indeed alicia that’s Excellent i was given quite firm Instructions actually Um nina has been telling us nina Kaplan’s been telling us about visiting Uh the area um there was recently you Had a thing From bill not it was about it was a sort Of guidebook to going and visiting The region you know sort of traveling Around and Where to eat drink that sort of thing um Can we all come and visit you when This is over or are we going to have to Wait a bit longer Yeah absolutely no question come i’ll Get i’ll talk your ear off about Uh bound in the sign-ins unless you
Don’t want me to And Give us the you know the details on Um i’m in says claire pastor party On cyprus avenue ruth ivy she’s already Planning that Well the best news i i’ve i’ve received In uh you know I receive a lot of good news typically But uh some really good news is that They’re repeating that dinner Every two years that’s not it will be Worth coming soon So i’m very excited for the next one But yeah so this wine grepikaya 17 This is the one where i again i say the Terroir the lakes kind of Help moderate the extremes of the Vintage because 17 was a notoriously uh difficult Vintage in terms of heat Um it was extremely hot and so we kind Of Benefited from the the cooling uh aspect Of Having water near our site a body of Water And uh the thing that is really Important about this blend too Is it it’s a complete change from the 16 Grappakaya So a wine that used to be dominated by Merlot this is now dominated by cabernet Sauvignon
And you get a lot more of that density In the nose black fruit rather than red Fruit And in the palette a bit uh more that Savoriness There’s also um a good bit of tobacco on The nose And chocolate and so yes it’s 50 Cabernet sauvignon 40 cabbie frank and Then 10 Were low and we aged this in a 75 Percent New oak so ruth’s life is there saying Lovely cat lovely cabinet serving your Freshness and briskness too which is Slightly speaking to what you were Saying before emily Yeah i love that word brisk i i really Look for that in a wine i want it to be Brisky um with frisky with me About sanji i think maybe as italy it’s Doing the briskness Um it’s got a really um Lovely movement when you smell it Immediately you You feel like you’re channeling it Channeling down into it There’s a sense of movement when as soon As you it hits your nose it’s Spiraling into wasn’t it chances Robinson who came out that line the The first duty of wine is to be Refreshing And i think it was probably when she was
Having a punch-up over Pavi 82 or whatever it was sort of Around the La faire paville it was when it Came out but i do get that it must help Being how far away are you from the Coast Uh in florence or in Right now quite far but uh in in Bulgaria yeah we’re I think uh two kilometers from the coast Like a mile away and that must make a Difference that sort of Coastal breezes coming in and does that Give you a freshness do you think Yeah uh i mean certainly like i said uh I think You have there’s there’s a good bit of Wind that typically comes through the Bulgari area and that’s That’s why i think uh cypresses were Actually planted as windbreaks Oftentimes So during the summer is not typically That extreme but having the the lakes And the sea breezes are in combination With each other Definitely help with um again the the Extremes and the vintage I think more so when you have extreme Highs It’s usually because you have i believe It’s called the tromante Wind it’s from the mountains
So uh you know all that heat that you Get from uh The center of tuscany in italy that’s When You you get that spike and that’s when We need the moderating influence from Our lakes I’ve never thought about that about the Surface trees you know being wind breaks I know Remember years ago flying into in Patagonia Where it almost feels like the plane is Hovering because the wind it flies into It’s so Strong but all the females there are all Surrounded by birch trees because Otherwise the vines are get Tipped over so everywhere has to have These wind breaks All around and about and then you get Issues with Frostings we’re not as extreme as greece Where you have to do the bush vines But Says what are your thoughts on climate Change um in the last year given that This is 2017. i remember visiting tuscany in 2017 It was with amelia singer who know we Both came and did some tours From a cruise ship and it was it wasn’t Even one of those years when there were
People harvesting in like the end of July It was so early when you got up into the Mountains what’s your Your perspective on climate change in Bulgaria so Climate change is something that’s Happening now it’s something that’s Happening Um we can see the difference in the Effects Uh longer warmer uh winters And summers like throughout the entire Growing season in bulgaria you see just This kind of Repetition of general Hotter vintages but while that’s Producing some of the most Fantastic vintages that we’ve seen in This In this place in the world it’s also Producing Um yeah some some unnecessary and Unfortunate extremes uh so Yeah it’s something that personally Moves me a lot because I’m going to be growing with this Industry for for a long time hopefully And I i’m going to witness a probably a Fairly substantial change in Both a local climate as well as a world Climate and So i really want to practice um
Sustainable and also trying to Decrease the footprint of winemaking as Much as possible For instance when when we are planning On having Our own winery uh because right now we Work within Uh cassidy terra which is another winery In bulgari but um when we do have our Own facility I think sustainability of that facility We’re going to take a lot of influence From uc davis what they’ve done With the jackson building so rainwater Capture Trying to do co2 capture depending on What technologies are available because Right now With uh the wine making process uh any Any carbon dioxide which is uh you know 90 99 pure carbon dioxide that comes out of Fermentation Just goes into the air and is generally Blown off into the Atmosphere and the way that wine makers Typically think about their Environmental impact Is that you know okay well if we blow Off co2 We just we take it back in the next year When we make the next vintage Because it’s a constant cycle but it’s a Kind of
Optimistic thought to think well what if We could actually capture that carbon And then have it be a method of reducing Carbon in the atmosphere not just Creating a cycle So there’s a lot of different things That we can do In terms of trying to promote Uh how we think about climate change not Just as Ikadepi but in the industry and i would Really love to be On the leading leading side of that Absolutely Emily are you you obviously get around About a little bit in italy are you Seeing this Degree of foresight um more generally in Italy i’ll keep talking because you’ve Got a mouthful of wine and i don’t want It to be really embarrassing Yes really long question whilst emily’s Husband Um so my my son was born in 2017 And i guess that was the first time i Really understood Climate change because uh it was Three months of over 35 in tuscany and Five months without rain and so it was It was really brutal we couldn’t Leave the house and and being english i Was always like opening the windows Let the sun in and let the heat out but Actually you let the heat in and the
Light in and it was Disastrous and and and uh the older People In the in where we were living would say We’ve never seen Anything like this in living memory and Then then And i’d heard that from other people They said that the year before and the Year before and year but like that Constantly there’s uh the older people Here and like just now with this frost So we’ve had uh Three days of of minus two minus three But we’ve had Uh i think it was 75 at one point a Couple of weeks ago like So everything’s everything’s uh Blossoming And then this brutal frost that’s just But then i guess that’s not so unusual In in um In the wine world to have these frosts But it’s the hot temperatures previously Are unusual so uh but however i feel That Italy has always been pretty sustainable When i There’s always been this kind of outlook That we’ve worked For for millennia without treatment or Chemicals pesticides fertilizers Whatever so we can Do that again and there’s lots of young
People that want to work in that In that way and to work sustainably so i I feel that i’m in one of the countries That are looking That are doing their their their best With sustainability Um it’s a really yeah positive we’ve got A couple of bits coming through toby Wilmer says this is not a question Why did you use a q a then toby that’s All right you’re allowed to This is a beautiful wine so uh thank you Very much indeed we’ve got a bit Sophie says there’s lovely acidity on The grappy car It’s interesting we keep coming back to That bit about the sort of freshness of The wine Louise wong says um i’ve paired Tonight’s wine with pecorino Then we send you some pepperoni isn’t That why uh what other cheeses do you Recommend Cheese question so i think i just saw A comment from ruth uh that was would Would tuscany ever get too hot for these Varietals Um i think it’s certainly possible Yeah uh you Uh we we just recently saw the approval Of i think 10 new varietals in bordeaux And um you know bordeaux is a Is is not as hot as bulgari um On an annual basis so
Um certainly if they’re planning i think We should be planning to And there’s several things that you can Do from Changing your viticulture changing the Way that you Um manage water in the vineyard A lot of research right now is being Done on how uh water actually influences Heat stress um But i i think that for for the Foreseeable future cabernet sauvignon Merlot and cabernet franc will be Will will still thrive in in bulgaria But i think it you definitely have to be Mindful about how you Propagate these grapes in this area To um maybe prepare yourself better for Let’s say If you have a heat a heat wave you’re Gonna want your grapes to be shaded more Um if you and you know that you can Choose a different trellising system Or um you can you can you know Make a whole variety of decisions Throughout the harvest season to try and Minimize the impact of uh of such an Event now i’m going to press you keem Because you did a very Interesting thing there like a Politician and massively did a body Swerve around the cheese Question all this nonsense about the Technical stuff we want to know about
Cheese well no Emily do you are you more informed on The subject of italian cheeses Um not really no because in tuscany So i thought when i arrived in italy uh And i based myself in in tuscany that i Would Really get to know italian wine like i Would be like super expert on italy but Actually i i only really know it It’s tuscany because it really they are Kingdoms that you you In i pretty much only drink what th What’s made around here in pecorino it’s Like pecorino it’s young It’s middle age and it’s old age form so I it becomes quite limiting although It’s quite lovely in that also But if if it’s about a cheese board i’m Not very picky because i I just i just i just like to plonk down A Big plate of cheese and bread and a Bottle of wine and i think that’s that’s Heaven but I guess if you’re going to be particular Harder cheeses will probably work pretty Nicely because there is Um definitely a concentration here and And acidity and tannin particularly that Need hard cheese So young cheeses might suffer like soft Cheeses might be a bit strange with all This
Tannin however there’s the flavors are So bright and fruity that maybe there Could be a bit like a The chutneys on the side so maybe you Could try this off the cheese with it I always feel that there’s no right or Wrong i mean that’s probably a really Lame Response but it’s it’s i I i yeah i i just think you just line up The cheeses and And see what happens and um you might be Really pleasantly Surprised but i probably would go with More with harder aged Cheeses however there’d be no harm in Trying So strong the younger would be good So a funny little anecdote from uh from The science perspective Uh my sensory professor uh She she would say in class if you want To Uh mask a wine if you if you want to Sorry if you want to compliment one if You want to show it’s like It’s it’s it’s better side pair it with Cheese If you want to reveal a wine if you want To show all of its flaws Pair it with apple oh really Well it was an old buyer’s thing wasn’t It it was buying an apple and sell-on Cheese
And so they would sort of go away and Eat apples before they went to wine Tastings because then they knew they Were going get really really amazing Wines Because they would still sing but then This is old school i mean bear in mind i Started the wine trade in 1988 when wine Wasn’t quite as good as it is now And keaton wasn’t born yet um And neither was it and Um and then the idea was that you would Go and sell on cheese because you could Get away with that being murdered If you sold them cheese i know we’ve had Some votes for brother i’m not sure Brought in Brass is not this sort of thing in a way You can always give it a try I’m going to put in a bit i know it’s Totally the wrong region in italy But i love having like almost anyone With pit soccery Which is the most humble italian dish It’s a sort of buckwheat pasta that’s About that long And you put on about a stone every time You eat it because you have it with Cheese and so it’s just potatoes It’s like starch and starch and cheese And it’s glorious It is absolutely locked down heaven Completely and we’ve got some questions Does anybody have tell us what’s your
Preference Between the two wines so go and let us Know which ones you prefer now Remember one of these is more expensive Than the other That doesn’t necessarily mean that you Have to like it more because they do Different things at different times They’re different way divisions Different classes That sort of stuff and i do have one Sort of question somebody said here and They were talking about What is the i think this speaks actually To the the science bit that we were Talking about before sort of emily king I mean actually You’re you’re using the science here Just to inform stuff I mean it’s not you’re not actually Changing anything are you it’s just A question of learning more about it Yeah so a funny a funny question that we Had um I was talking to my uh my old professor In davis because we have weekly meetings For our research project And he’s been doing a lot of research Into pinot noir And his so he’s been looking At all these various aspects of the soil Of the grape of the clone Root stock and then from the juice and How that turns into a wine and so he’s
Been doing Everything from start to finish in a Research um Environment and someone walks up to him And And they ask him so after all this like Are you trying To to make you know oregon pinot and Lodi or Are you trying to you know are you Trying to just take a a Precious terroir and then copy and paste It In in another place and And the answer is of course not like you Can’t do it it’s impossible In anything his findings have found that That Is almost impossible to to to Use science to synthetically Uh create something you can add Something but you know In in winemaking all we’re adding is Grapes you can add uh Uh grapes and yeast of course but Um you know we’re not adding anything To really change the flavor it’s all About Uh it’s all about trying to amplify the Flavor and your process and your wine Making so yeah of course it’s about Informing It’s nothing about our science is Actually
Dictating how our fruit Gets into your glass it’s all about Making the best quality product that we Can Down the processing line because as Simple as The ingredients are in wine making [Music] The process it just has a million Different factors and so we have to look Individually at each of those And each of those is a choice a Stylistic stylistic choice And one that is going to influence how You perceive the swine Today or 20 years from now or longer Information not addition that’s a nice Way of capturing it isn’t it sort of Yeah um can i um Keaton so if for example if you had the Opportunity to get one of those Very sorting machines that kind of flick Out anything imperfect Like what do you feel about those Because i i they make me feel a bit Uncomfortable The kind of the idea that you only Choose the perfect berry because I went on a visit to australia in 2011 And Visited a company of uh an estate owned By lvmh and they had those Things that that special laser machine And i don’t know the wine was yeah i
I almost missed the imperfection of some Of those berries that were maybe a Little bit dried or a little bit under Ripe but i don’t know Would that ever be something you’d be Interested in but do you believe in Those Those machines do you think that’s the Way forward for wine So uh from our conversation yesterday we Were talking about minerality In in wines and you were saying that There’s nothing Scientists have found that there’s Nothing specific that links minerality To a site or a place therefore it cannot Exist And yet when we pick up a glass we have Minerality so you have to be in the in Between So i actually had a friend when i was Studying who published a research paper On um on optical sorting And and so you know this is another Instance where you think Okay why where is that appropriate and Why do you need it For us i don’t think we’ll ever get an Optical sorter because It’s really for fast production if You’re producing A lot of tons per hour and you need to You have a distemmer that’s going um Moving really rapidly
Um you’re gonna get a lot more of mog or Material other than grapes getting into That system And and into the tank and into the wine But if you are working slowly and more Carefully You can you can consciously make Decisions for Per varietal because maybe a bridal like Cabernet franc is more prone to having What’s called chicks and hens The little tiny green berries next to Perfectly ripe berries You know you can have i think yes Imperfections is a part of the beauty of Wine making but i think It’s a it’s a decision that you want to Make For the production of your facility but Also for Um the stylistic for each varietal and It comes down that process chain of How do we want to specify um and amplify The quality of this fruit For instance cabernet franc is a bit Green In california any wine it was a bit of An adjustment period for me when i came Here and tasted Uh cabernet franc and and there was that Like greenness that freshness In the wine that was widely received as A positive thing people In this area actually love a green
Cabernet franc Not a ton but they it’s a part of the Varietal characteristic for them And so um i had to retrain myself to Think because Cabernet sauvignon when it’s green in California that bell pepper that Pyrazine You know you’re just like oh okay this Can’t be a serious cabernet sauvignon Um so it’s about tailoring kind of Imperfection to suit the varietal Interesting you should say that sophie Has just commented she said people Loving pyrazines that’s unusual It’s the kind of but then i quite like a Bit of a bell pepper Crunch to particularly kind of foodie Wines i mean you know as a sommelier That’s one of those things where you Actually got a bit of a crunch That’s not always the easiest thing to Drink on its own But italians don’t tend to make wines on Their own they make wines to have with Meals is Is that i remember it was a sociologist And they said In in britain particularly is in Northern europe people’s brains had two Parts One said food and the other said drink Which is why you have pints And a kebab in newcastle whereas
Italians just had Meals and it was sort of impossible to Imagine drinking wine without food And indeed vice versa but that’s where Some of those Characters sort of kick in wouldn’t is That right emily am i Way off i would totally i would totally Agree i love the angles of italian wine I i i don’t want a drink that’s round Because what can you do with it what What and i’ve noticed it’s so true here So When you that when you go into the Piazza for aperitivo There’s nobody drinking glass of red Wine even a glass of white wine They might have a beer they might have a G t they might have a spritz Very a push maybe there’s a rosato on The table and but that’s because Apparently to some of the old school Guys that i visited Rose isn’t even a wine it’s a drink a Beve and a Drink it’s not even actually white to Them isn’t even a drink because they all Drink red wine here but It and i have a similar friend here Italian who says the italians drink so They can eat more You you don’t see red wine on the table Even white wine on the table without Food like
It’s it’s changed everything for me like My weight probably particularly because I just Don’t drink bottles of wine before Dinner and then drink it with dinner too Now i’m Probably a bit more moderate because the Italians just they have this Understanding and also if you try to Drink italian wine without food Immediately your body craves because of That acidity because of that That drying sensation from these high Tannins and It you just want this active dynamic Wine that Makes you want to eat it doesn’t just Like sit in your tongue Sit on your tongue sit in your belly Like it it demands you do something and Um You know it moves dance eat it It’s active and i love that dynamism of Italian wine and even with Varieties i would struggle with usually Like and i would probably turn my nose Up even at bordeaux Even bordeaux i find am i going to drink With bordeaux like If you gave me a fancy bottle of boiled Dough i mean maybe 82 some 82 i’d be very happy about but Um I wouldn’t know what to do with that
They don’t give me an appetite and and That’s very unfair i’m sure i’ve never Even visited boy But i have no inclination to go because It looks ugly it’s flat Is this how i’m so excited to see what’s Happening in bulgaria because i think In bordeaux they’re doing great things They’ve done great things for centuries But actually it’s such an industrial Flat ugly area How how i mean i guess of course i know The answer to uh But surely here there’s something Exciting to be done but i don’t know Please Anyone on the panel that’s been to to Bordeaux and Of course the wines are fine but i but i Just think how can anywhere so Ugly make such beautiful wine and and And sell for such high prices And then you come to tuscany and you see This beauty at It’s most extreme in chianti classico in Montorchino in bulgari And these wines have to represent and They represent at such a low Um at such a low price like the quality To price ratio is Off the charts in italy as as everyone i Know on the panel knows I’m going to place you on something here Because you’ve been talking very much
About these being italian wines Now international grape varieties from Your perspective what is it that makes This An italian wine not an international one I guess that acidity um and that that Briskness that That ruth said that prisoners and there Is like a purple note that Comes in the violet this violet Character is a slightly kind of Deathly note it’s like a note of death i Think that hangs over over italian wine It’s like the grim reaper that appears At that monty python Party you know that he just shows up and Just takes everyone off to heaven Or hell or wherever we’re all going and I feel like that Is present but there’s also like this Cherry jubilance Even whatever variety there seems to Have this kind of um Cherry earnest innocence about it and Then this kind of like dark Darth vader violet kind of death vibe That’s going on and i feel like if you Had a lineup of wines that you would Just Smell this kind of slightly creepy dried Floral character that Even on the young wines you find i i Think that resonates with anyone that Loves italy that they just
Italian wine that they just find either This very bright jubileum Innocent cherry or this slightly kind of Eerie violet note that makes That feels a bit funera real but also Kind of exciting and a bit I have watering hides i get this every Time I was going to suggest that for Everybody who’s planning to do the Master of wine exam I was going to suggest that that cherry Characteristic Is usually indicative of something that Comes from italy i don’t know kind of Well there’s Various reasons why often it’s sort of a Sort of sanjay thing but even when You’re not in san jose Um but then i’m suddenly where we’ve got Lenka on the panel who’s really who Has actually passed the mw unlike me who Failed it horrendously Twice and indeed is something of a Specialist in the subject of darth vader Unlike me so i’m going to Link uh um sorry i would defer to you on Both Star wars and the master of wine exams But what we’ve got creepy cherry love it I enjoy that very much Yeah it’s creepy cherry vibes Isn’t it look we’re not going to keep People much longer and
We would love to know just fire in Your sort of initial impressions Everybody let us know you know just What’s There in your mind in your sort of Psyche as we sort of come around to the The last sort of few bits and rusev says I’ve always thought that wines from Italy have a unifying italianness which I love about the country Well gary baldwin would be very Impressed um And who was it who said we’ve made italy But it was count kavor i think wasn’t he Said we’ve made italy known as make Italians And Italy’s got quite a long way to go on so If the italian wines are unified Then at least one part of garibaldi’s Mission Has uh has sort of come to fruition so Claire Loves grippy canty claire brilliant That’s the That’s why you’re here to go and try it And i Am a big greppy kaya fan i know i do Particularly love Grepikaya um with sort of i think it’s Now It needs to be seen in the context Of the great wines of of bulgari and Well i’m hoping this sort of thing will
Go and present it in that sort of Context Sophie says thanks for the discovery you Love thanks for coming along sophie We’re we’re delighted to to sort of have You along Um what’s next for uh grepikaya awfully Greppy Keaton what what can we expect to see Over the coming months Um well i think we’re going to see like I i arrived in uh uh 2019 so we’ve been Blending the The vintages uh prior to kind of when we Started really making These these uh huge changes so we’re Gonna start to see Yeah a variety of different uh Characteristics And uh as emily can attest to Like color has been a kind of uh focal Point for us And getting uh specifically the middle Palette Focusing on um having a really A really balanced wine because i think One of the most important things for me Going into winemaking Is about balance and texture and so i Think we’re really focusing On maximizing the the kind of typicity The balance And the the texture of our wines so i Think you
You can expect that um Yeah our our wines will start to show Hopefully a more Just overall uh sense of place Uh with with every increasing your place And vintage Is uh is the goal this for me This does this is a a philosophical Difference And i don’t know whether emily you would Agree with this i often meet winemakers Where broadly their winemaking Philosophy is set in aspect We’ve done it this way we will continue To do this way we will go and Deal with the challenges that come Around with us because then we can go And do it this way Here without being weird about it There’s a sense of okay so now we have These tools how do we go and make it Better How do we go and and that’s all Like i said from our like it’s been Under new under ownership since 2017 And since then igrappi has just been Like plowing through these these New innovations pulling from all these Different resources What’s traditional what’s uh what’s new And upcoming what’s Cutting edge bleeding edge whatever it Is we want to know about it And we want to try and learn as much as
We can so that We can learn how we can again emphasize On our place in the world that we have That we’re so privileged to make wine in And uh you know and bring that to all uh All of you and and yeah it’s really just About Making the best quality product that we Possibly can And um and yeah it does get a bit Philosophical and vague Uh that’s that’s in our science as well As in our Are wine making um but it also gets Incredibly specific And down to each and uh each and every Point Uh we want to start tracking the Progress of each and every vine Each and every we want to know if a Grape was picked Which which one it ends up in um And we want that level of uh Communication between Not only just in the seller but also to Our customers we want you guys to know As much as you can about What we’re doing and how we want to Change and impact the wine world Well thank you everyone emily and keaton Especially And all the team to greppy thank you Very much indeed And well everybody watch this space
There’s more to come From uh from us and igrepe we’ll see you All soon [Music] Bye [Music] You
